I am a little surprised at how many people have been upset by my comments of shooting out of control protesters and looters.
Brit In Bangkok I stumbled upon her blog a long time ago and have enjoyed her up and down living in Thailand. But I have upset her over my blog post ‘Ubon Red Shirts Out Of Control’.
She has commented below.
Wow, you just lost my readership.
When you actually support a government firing on its citizens, there's something severely wrong with you. Very sorry about that :(
People who had illegally protested by shutting streets down, ruining businesses, stopping people in their cars at illegal road blocks they had set up and asking for I.D cards, then paying for the privilege to get through the road block, storming into hospitals and hotels apparently looking for soldiers and snipers and so forth.
Brit, in any of our home countries, any government would have cracked down severely after the first day. Shutting streets off without prior approval, building barricades and so forth. An ultimatum would be issued and then any force would be used to remove the protesters. It would be over in a few days at the most.
If the red shirts had protested in an orderly way, in a park or an area not shutting down streets and businesses and so forth, then go ahead and protest your heart out. Set up picket lines, do what ever you want but most importantly, and obey the laws of the country.
I have always said that every person has the right to protest in a democratic country. It is right to protest if we believe that something is wrong and we want to have our voice heard. But we need to do it orderly and lawfully, something I never seen the red or yellow shirts do.
I know you are a passionate red supporter. I have read your blog often and your views are your views Brit. I don’t support reds, yellows or any other colour involved in politics. I have no faith in Thailand’s political system. It has been an endless rollercoaster for the real Thai people. Not the elitist who are the parliamentarians.
Scandal after scandal, fraud, extortion, corruption and the list never seems to end of Thai politics. Politics across the world suffer from above to extents. But usually well hidden until finally being found out.
Brit let’s look at your posts of late and there are excellent pictures showing unarmed dead civilians.
Abhisit’s Government Shooting Civilians, Thailand’s unelected prime minister.
This is true to point as he was elected by a special vote after many supposed supporters of the then Somchai Wongsawat, Thaksin’s brother in law in the PPP party beat Abhisit in 2008, 298 votes to Abhisit’s 168. The National Assembly had voted.
Then the PPP was disqualified and caretaker prime minister Chaovarat Chanweerakul took over for a brief period. Then all the members of parties who used to support the PPP, defected to the Democratic party, For Thais Party (Puea Thai, the successor of the PPP), the former Chart Thai Party, the Thais United National Development Party, and the Neutral Democratic Party, and the "Friends of Newin" faction of the former Peoples Power Party. They crossed over to support Abhisit and he won a special vote. I don’t like the way he was elected either but this is parliament and how the prime minister is elected.
He (Abhisit) was on Thai TV tonight using "Bush speak" and telling people the military is only shooting 'terrorists'
What are these so called protesters then. They have weapons, be them guns, poles or slingshots, they are weapons.
Your post, Poor Thailand – Its Government is Useless.
Abhisit, who has to be the most useless Prime Minister Thailand has ever had.
You say this because he sent ‘text messages’ to red shirt protestors asking them to go home or not join the protest. So when he is passive he is useless but when he uses force he is a civilian killer.
Your Post, Censorship Alive and Well in Thailand. Even CNN Isn’t Allowed to Broadcast.
This is about an interview on CNN that was cut short.
Thaksin has been broadcasting freely to his supporters for so long. DTV and his live talk show he rallies his supporters with words of wisdom and good luck to him for it.
Back in January 09 in a live broadcast he likens himself to that of Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi. I really am flabbergasted how he sees himself like this. These people fought for their people and right, they were jailed (house arrest as well) for 20 years plus. This man fled, he didn’t stand and fight, he ran away. He is nothing like them.
Your posts go on ridiculing the government, the police and army. You are upset when the army used force and 21 people died. These people died because they are fighting for a cause they really don’t know what it is all about. Many are sheep and just repeat what they are told. The majority of them don’t have their own opinion.
I have asked red shirt protestors, why they are protesting and the usual reply is, ‘for democracy and Thailand’ and if you ask them their view on democracy they have no idea on what a true democracy is.
Brit, these protestors were given an ultimatum towards the end, plenty of time to leave and avoid any blood shed, the writing was on the wall they were serious and people were about to die. They ignored this and then cry wolf about excessive use of force.
Why the senseless torching of shopping centres and businesses and also channel 3 when people were still inside this building. I know that nearly any other prime minister or president would have ordered a shoot on sight order. A warning shot, and then shoot the person or people if they do not stop. The people who are identified in video or media through pictures taking part in all of this need to be punished severely. Thankfully Thailand has a death penalty for terrorism, and many deserve to be put to death for what they have instigated. The sheep as well need to be punished and not see the light of day for a long time.
But these are my views, and mine alone. Many mightn’t agree with such force and that is their view. If I have offended readers and they aren’t going to read anymore, I really couldn’t give two fucks if you are so shallow and have your heads so far up your arses that you cannot get your head around another person’s views.
So Brit if you don’t come back, so be it. If 100 don’t come back I won’t lose sleep. I don’t write for approval of others I write to express my life and views.
Brunty
20 comments:
Well said - strong words but very much needed. It has been embarrassing to read expat comments on various forums, trying to defend the actions of these thugs - illegal government, what about the PAD, fighting for democracy, unarmed peaceful protesters etc.
The good news out of Ubon is that many locals here are disgusted with the actions of a violent minority.
People make the government not buildings. There needs to be a change of people in government not buildings. I know new buildings may mean jobs for a short time for some people, but at what price? Larry H
Strong words, but very true. It has been embarrassing to read the comments of many expats on forums, trying even now to defend the actions of these violent arsonist thugs.
How can they explain that robbing people and burning buildings, to the detriment of their own people, is somehow linked to their fights for "democracy"?
The good news from Ubon is that local people seem to be disgusted with the actions of the few morons.
dear mr. brunty, i and my wife, who grew up in ubon, agree with your views on the riots. she is a very kind person but believes the red leader deserve summary execution as traitors and murderers. the armed mob was exhorted to burn everything down. king property burned. thaksin property did not burn. rebels had maps of where to burn and incendiary materials to do it with. she believes the war weapons and some the black army are from cambodia. she has also learned that some of the armed rebels do not speak thai. she has no interest in what tourists and visitors think about this. nothing like this has happened in 100 years in thailand. as for mass murderer thaksin now demanding human rights - so do his thousands of victims. all best. angry irishman
"If the red shirts had protested in an orderly way, in a park or an area not shutting down streets and businesses and so forth, then go ahead and protest your heart out. Set up picket lines, do what ever you want but most importantly, and obey the laws of the country."
So shutting down an International Airport is a legal protest. How come no yellow shirts were ever taken to court for this offence.
This kind of double standard is what the main red shirt protests were about. Send a man to jail for having a catapult but a rich yellow shirt can do no wrong.
Brunty you run a brilliant blog but please get your head out of the yellow sand and stick it up your true chillie enriched red ass.
No offence meant because your blog's a diamond but don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Best wishes from the UK.
Hello Larry, very well said. It is changing the people and burning building does nothing but make more people dislike the people who did it.
Hi CJ, just my views and many are disgusted in Ubon, they are very angry at the people who did this.
Gday Angry, the men in black have been said to be soldiers to red shirts and as you said from outside the country. It has been sad to watch Thais destroying other Thais livelihoods in a call for democracy. Burning building does nothing for the cause.
Martyn, maybe before all the shit falls out of your mouth you should read what I have written in the past about the PAD or yellow shirts. I have no attachment to any political party in Thailand.
Here are just a few links to views on yellows and reds. http://isaanstyle.blogspot.com/2008/08/political-circus-in-full-swing-thailand.html and http://isaanstyle.blogspot.com/2010/04/my-take-on-politics-red-and-yellow.html and http://isaanstyle.blogspot.com/2010/04/democrat-party-dissolution-for-258.html
It doesn’t matter if one person is rich or poor Martyn, yellow or red. When they commit offences of such nature they need to be punished. If you clean the shit out of your eyes and read I cannot accept 9 postponements in court of the yellow leaders in answering charges for the taking over of the airports and also inciting violence.
So I will take some the chilli enriched yellow sand and stick it in your mouth so you can’t open it and more shit come pouring out. I don’t take any offence and I hope you don’t either.
Bite the hand that feeds me, what hand is that?
Brunty
Brunty,
To steer away from the political aspects for a bit...
I'm sure that all of your readers appreciate that you kept us abreast of what was happening in Ubon, and provided really OUTSTANDING photos as a backdrop.
We live in southern California, U.S.A., and events outside of Bangkok received NO attention in our TVs or newspapers. We got most of our info from the Bangkok Post on-line, but their coverage of Isan is very limited. Your blog, along with MeMock's at "Life in Rural Thailand" provided us with the only real-time commentary & photos.
Many, many thanks.
Ken C. & Newt,
Hey Brunty,
Been reading your post for a while. Im from Hawaii, USA and been living and working here for going on 2 years. Ive read your post on the problems with the red shirts and I have to say I TOTALLY AGREE with you. I feel from what they are doing and for shutting down parts of Bangkok, they ruined the image of Thailand and went way off course on what they are trying to represent.
And to Brit in Bangkok- what would YOU think if they came to where you were living running crazy carry things like weapons ready to burn your property down and probably threatening injury to you....would you stand there all pretty thinking...."umm they look like pretty nice people".....and then think of the thousands of people who faced just this.
I know that nearly any other prime minister or president would have ordered a shoot on sight order.
I don't believe that. I think in any western country - if confronted with a situation like in Bangkok - they'd bring in police in riot gear and water cannons. If that wasn't enough they'd escalate with tear gas, then rubber bullets. Maybe Thailand doesn't have the necessary equipment for that, but they should have acquired it at least after that airport incident.
I haven't read all the comments yet but here is some information.
One of the cribes the REDS have had is about the elitist politicans running the country and forgetting the ordinary folk upcountry.
For the past 30-40 years most the major political parties have been run by provincial godfather-type business tycoons or ex army people from up country.
Lets start from the 1950s Phibun-army, Sarit army (both from up country), kurit and Seni (They were elitist and only lasted a 1 year or so, Anand (he was appointed so got out quickly), Prem (elitist), Banharn (provincial tycoon), Chatchai (provincial tycoon), Chuen (southern lawyer-honest) Chavalit (ex army Up country) Thaksin (business tycoon), Samak (business man and rabble rouser), Abhisit (elitist and honest). From the above list (not complete) Chuan only breaks the mould.
It appears that leaders go in cycles and there are periods where the leaders represent out-of-Bangkok interests and other times when leaders were army. Only Abhisit and Samak are true Bangkok people.
If the REDS had waited for a few more months they would have had their chance to vote into another corrupt upcountry leader who would given them a few free baht while he and his cronies made millions.
Brunty no offence taken and I'll have to read your posts on a more regular basis, I'll admit to being an occasional reader.
Best wishes from the UK.
Newt, I ma glad I have been able to keep you up to date for Ubon. Everything is quiet now and the reds have seemed to have dispersed. I hope it stays that way.
Anon, wow in Hawaii, you are lucky. They have hurt Thailand’s image as they went too far with the rioting and then burning the buildings. It does make people think Thailand isn’t safe. It really is safe it is just certain areas otherwise it is normal as usual.
Hey Stefan, I agree that a prime minister or president would use such weapons first to disperse the crowd. If they started rioting then the order to shoot on site would have to be given. I was surprised with the leniency shown in Greece recently.
Michael you are completely right. I have read a lot of ex prime ministers and most is very interesting reading. As you said most have been country elite. The upcountry love anyone who gives a few extra Baht or debt reductions or relief, they are the best person in the world.
Martyn, I am glad I didn’t offend you. I have never sided with any political party and have been completely unbiased when writing about any political party here in Thailand.
Thanks for dropping by all
Brunty
I agree with Stefan that the army should have made more use of water cannons, tear gas, batons and rubber bullets before moving in.
But throughout this long stand off (several weeks) the army either showed remarkable restraint or couldn’t agree among their various factions. I suspect the latter. The Army commander in chief, Anupong, has in the past been a friend of Thaksin. Two years ago when Thaksin briefly returned and went to a funeral, Anupong was shown bowing down and kissing Thaksin’s feet.
In addition, many in the army do not like Abhisit because he is too honest and has been trying to get to the bottom of the scanner corruption story.
Thailand has nearly always used force to disperse protestors. Demonstrations in October 1973, 1976 and 1992 were dealt with by force. Many died. In the former two protests which were by students, extreme violence was used. In October 1976, the Red Gaurs lead by Samak Sunthornvej, stormed Thammasat university where students were burnt alive, hung, raped and killed.
In the three protests above, roads were hardly blocked, no buildings were torched and the demonstrators killed no one.
If the Red shirts had been students their protests would have been destroyed in the first week.
Later Samak was able to become Governor of Bangkok and then Prime Minister.
And Chavalit Yongchaiyut wasn’t far behind Samak in mucky undertakings. Both have become leaders of Thaksin’s proxy parties.
And Thaksin himself gave the orders for the drug crackdown that killed 2500 people without trial, 107 people at Krue-se mosque in Pattani in April 2004 and suffocated 78 people at Tak Bai, Narathiwat in October 2004.
Thailand has never shown any interest in trying to disperse protestors with non-violent methods.
The International media has made a big thing out of the current government not being democratically elected. I would like to see any politician convicted of electoral fraud and over spending go to jail for 5 years and be banned from politics for life. Those receiving any cash handouts should get 60 days in jail.
Past human rights violations committed in Thailand in 1973, 1974,1992 and 2004 were far more extreme, with far more people killed than in May 2010.
The rank and file of the Red shirts unfortunately have been deceived into backing a bunch of murderous thugs, led from abroad by a monster called Thaksin who ordered this mayhem.
Hey Brunty,
This is Anon again. I meant to say that yes I was born and raised in Hawaii but now I live and work in the upper Nakhon Phanom area. And if you heard the saying "lucky you live Hawaii"....well this is not all what its cracked up to be. Anyway, nothing important really. Keep up the good work on the blog.... I especially loved your blog (a while back) about your neighbor and that chicken problem because I can really relate to that story....
Jon w
Oh yah Brunty,
sorry forgot to let you know earlier that my wife is Thai and also a teacher but at a different school and she agrees with your views also....
I appreciate your gentlemanly response to my original comment. Best of luck and I'll be reading your posts on a much more regular basis. When all's said and done you're an Isaan boy after all. Chok dee krap.
Hi Brunty,
I hope Brit will cool down after a while. She is rather prone to getting overheated like that (and then regaining her composure a while later).
I'm rather worried about this current unrest in Thailand, though. It is true that there had been many different political protests there in the last 50 yrs, but as far as I know, until this ongoing Yellow v Red series of protest thingy, all the previous protests were started and sustained by college students (educated folks out to protest pro-military government). This one seems more a class warfare gone to the bullets... I'm afraid that makes it much harder to reconcile the sides.
It is astute of you to recognize how difficult the job is for the current government and law enforcement to try to restore order while not committing too much violence... It is much easier to sit in the comfort of one's home and find fault with how the police, for instance, are trying to do their job when they are outnumbered by the crowd and are reluctant to use force against them. It looks a fiasco, but it perfectly reminds me of the main difference between Thais and Americans. The Thais are really a lot more averse to violence than Westerners are. I still remember Waco and Ruby Ridge. :o)
Stefan and Michael, your points are very good and the use of water cannons was tried if you remember and the red shirts took control of these vehicles and then used the cannons to fires rockets from them.
Also the use of rubber bullets was condemned when used, and also tear gas was tried and widely reported in the papers. Each time it was apparently the government being too aggressive.
Michael I agree that the restraint shown by the army and prime minster was very patient, in years gone by this wouldn’t have happened. We know how most of these protest situations ended up.
One of Abhisit’s big problems is his honesty, trying to bring corruption to an end, making all investigations very transparent. He relieves people of their post if they are suspected of corruption and also many who were thought to be supporters of Thaksin. This didn’t make him any friends.
Thaksin’s war on drugs is so widely written about and the reading makes you think it a little unbelievable. But the facts are too many for it to not be and how a man could order the murder of so many people and many innocent people and not face any charges is hard to fathom.
The government or prime minster was elected by the usual method from the national Assembly but the crossing of the parties from the Thaksin aligned to the Abhisit democrat party is what anger most.
I agree Michael that any politician should be banned for life for electoral fraud. They are there to make themselves and family and friends richer.
How people can be so easily duped into following such people is hard to understand. Many did for money, small handouts and promises of more money if the protest as successful.
Hi Anon, I see you are in Thailand. Yes, I had another American who worked at my school who lived in Hawaii, he was in the services and then just as a civilian and said the same thing. Told me many interesting stories about the place and people.
The chickens and neighbour are now gone, they moved away a long time ago. He was a renter I found out later and they moved back out into the countryside again. Nothing to do with me but unable to make a better living here apparently.
Hey Martyn, gentlemanly I have never been called before, I am sure of that…
Yes, an Isaan boy at heart for sure. Isaan people are amazing, really amazing.
Hi Smorg. Yes Brit does get a little hot at times. I have read her blog for a long time and her love hate relationship with Thailand. Going from I hate this place and I am going elsewhere to it being the best place in the world. I don’t mind her point of view at all and will still wander to her blog to see what she is doing in Bangkok.
It is sad for Thailand as they recover from one thing another happens. For a person to have to make a decision to use whatever force is necessary is a huge responsibility. To make a call when you know people will lose there life and innocent people could be killed is huge. But sadly it is a responsibility that these people take on when they are appointed to these positions.
Waco and Ruby Ridge I can still remember watching at the time shocked. I am older than I pretend to be.
Brunty
hi Bunty
I read your stuff on andrew drummond and john , and i thought you held a first class show for hosting a very controversial issue. hats off to you.
then i read your recent right of atilla the hun comments on the recent riots. i know where you are coming from. and i get the idea you were angry and wanted to upset Brit. But in doing so, when you brought up the death penality and punishing the sheep, i though you had taken a hate pill. hay, i think you have so much potential. then you let other like minded people post similar tripe, calling for death penalty etc, and this made for a very dark and forbidding blog.
i know you can do better, so why don't u stop pandering to the readers and really express your views on the Reds with some kind of reality.
i am new to bloggin and need some back links, http://elmotheclown.blogspot.com/ while you r there please read my acticle on the role of twitter duing thai crisis.
so why did you shoot yourself in the foot and go tropo, it was like you sold your soul to the devil, but all you get it a few knickle and dimes from dim wit followers, now is infamy worth that?
"One of Abhisit’s big problems is his honesty, trying to bring corruption to an end, making all investigations very transparent. He relieves people of their post if they are suspected of corruption and also many who were thought to be supporters of Thaksin. This didn’t make him any friends"
ROFLMAO:-) :-(
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